Lama Thupstan Chhostak
Profile
Born in Leh in 1957, Thupstan Chhostak (pronounced 'cho-tak'), inspired by his nun aunt, became a monk at the age of 10. He was ordained by Rizong Shas Rinpoche and went to study in the Central Institute of Buddhist Studies, Choglamsar, in 1971. In 1976 he went to Benares (Varanasi), India, to study for a Bachelors degree in Tibetan Literature, Philosophy, Hindi and Political Science.
He returned to Ladakh in 1981 and was asked to become a teacher in Leh Lamdon Public School, where he taught Bodhik (Ladakhi) and Hindi for 12 years. He also had his own radio programme on the local radio station based in Leh - children's programmes covering Ladakhi history, Buddhism and Ladakhi grammar.
In 1987, he was sent by Lamdon school to study for a Bachelors in Education at the Central Institute of Higher Tibetan Studies, Sarnath, Varanasi. He returned to Lamdon school, resigning in 1993 to do a 6 month meditation retreat in a cave close to Rizong. In 1996, he became a 'Gelong' (intermediate monk) in Dharamsala, being ordained by His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Since then he has taught in Samstaling Monastery, Nubra and now resides in Rizong Monastery as a teacher at the monastery school, at the request of His Holiness Rizong Shas Rinpoche III.
(MB - Manoj Bharij; TC - Thupstan Chhostak)
MB: I’d like to ask you about the process of becoming a monk. As far as I know it is through parents and sometimes through personal choice. Generally, how do you become a monk?
TC: There are two ways of becoming a monk. One way is when children learn about Buddhism a little bit, start their education about Buddhism, learning about taking refuge, doing prostrations, these kinds of things, and gradually they increase their curiosity and interest in Buddhism. Then sometimes children decide to become a monk, they ask their parents and the parents also support and send their children to the monastery. Sometimes the parents like their children to become a monk and ask the son “would you like to become a monk” and if the son agrees they send him to a monastery. This is the first way. The second way of becoming a monk is when a person is in his 20s, for example, he decides to become a monk so studies about Buddhism and after taking permission from his parents, goes to the monastery to meet the Rinpoche or abbot and becomes a monk. At that time when a person is mature, they can think seriously about becoming a monk and sometimes they renounce worldly things and then become a monk.
MB: Where would this childhood education about Buddhism come from? Are they taught in school? Or by their parents?
TC: Basically there are two types of education – formal and informal. Informal education about Buddhism is the kind the children get from their parents in the beginning, in the family. Every family has their own private, small shrine and the parents practise Buddhism and the children also learn during that time… offering butter lamps, water, prostrations at the altar, taking refuge. So I think it starts from the family and gradually they get sent to school and they get more education about Buddhism through school. Especially if there is a monk already in the family and the monk gives instructions about Buddhism, the children get informal education about Buddhism.
MB: From your experience, how and why did you become a monk?
TC: Actually, when I was very young, I remember there were many monks in the Jokhang [main temple] and there was a special ceremony celebrating Buddha’s birthday . At that time I was very young - I used to like the monks’ dress and how they prayed and these things, and later on my aunt who was a nun inspired me and used to tell many stories about Lord Buddha. Then I decided to become a monk and my parents sent me to the monastery to become a monk.
MB: And how do people or the parents decide which monastery they will go to? For example in Rizong there are many students from Zanskar which is very far from Rizong. How do the parents decide where the child will go?
TC: It depends on the situation. Normally every big village has a monastery, some big, some small. The parents decide to send their child to the monastery of the same order the family belongs to but nowadays parents look for places with a better education about Buddhism, and a modern education, so by these things they choose the monastery that they send their child to become a monk.
MB: And once a child has been entered into the monastery, how is the relationship between the parent and the child?
TC: Good question. Once the child enters the monastery, the child has to stay at the monastery and sometimes the child can go to see their parents, visit them, but mostly the childhood is spent at the monastery for learning, chanting and carrying out other temple services.
MB: So once the child has entered the monastery, does he have much contact with his family?
TC: Not much – if we feel it necessary then sometimes the parents come to them monastery to see their child and sometimes the monastery sends the child to their family to visit.
MB: So why become a monk?
TC: There are long and short term benefits. If you become a monk in this life, you can be more happy, live a comfortable life, can do more help to other people. In the long run, the main objective, the ultimate goal, is to become enlightened. If someone becomes a monk they have more opportunities to study and practice and these things.
MB: So it’s like a faster path to nirvana?
TC: Yes.
MB: Perhaps in your own experience, are there any benefits to being a monk? Any rewards?
TC: As I told you, when a person becomes a monk, the monk decides everything by their own choice, not by force, and if a person is in a family, they have many problems, go through many conditions and sometimes by force they have to do things. So a monk’s life is very free and a big reward is that they can think freely, independently, especially about religion and get the opportunity to practise by their own choice, not by force and the one most important reward is to get the opportunity to study deeply about Buddhism and practise it to get the ultimate goal. So there is big scope in the life of a monk to practice and study.
MB: Is it fair to say that monks have a higher status in society, they’re very highly respected?
TC: Yes, in Ladakhi society, people respect monks but it depends on the individual monk and the particular person – if he follows according to the religious rules then people pay respect, and the people also benefit. It depends on the person.
MB: Do you think the traditional role of monks has changed in 21st century society?
TC: There are two roles for monks – basically the main role is to practise Buddhism and spread the Buddha’s teaching all over the world for the benefit of all living beings for world peace and non violence and these things. But other roles take place from birth to death – monks are always involved in society – many kinds of activities take place in society in which monks are involved. But I think in the 21st century everything is rapidly changing. In my opinion, change should also come to the monastic society also. In the old times monks only studied Buddhism and practiced and did rituals. but nowadays I think monks need a modern education as well as a traditional education to benefit the society. If monks don’t study these modern subjects and these things, spiritually its good but I think one side will be lost. So for the benefit of the society, monks should study modern knowledge as well as Buddhism so in the 21st century the roles of monks are more than before.
MB: Rizong Monastery is quite isolated, more so than many other monasteries in Ladakh. Most others have a village around the monastery; Rizong is 6km from the nearest road and very isolated… do you think the monks in Rizong are involved in society or should they be more involved?
TC: Yes, monks are very involved with society. Around Rizong there are a few villages – the monks go to the village to practice rituals and whenever the villagers have some functions, the monks invite them – the monks go there so the monks are involved in society in many ways.
MB: Moving on, religious traditions in many parts of the western world are dying out and society is becoming more materialistic. Do you think Buddhism is still important today?
TC: Yes, the importance of Buddhism is increasing more and more in this modern society. It is very relevant that Buddhism should spread all over the world and I think it can help people stop negative things and can put life in a proper way. I think everywhere and everything is changing – traditions, values – in this modern day Buddhism is very relevant and can play a more important role in the society.
MB: Do you think there is still a place for the sangha [monastic community] in the 21st century?
TC: Yes – it's very important, much more than before. If negative things arise everywhere then we have to face them with a stronger power, so we need the sangha and the rules laid down by Lord Buddha.
MB: Do you see monastic life changing in the future?
TC: Yes – there are two things monastic life means – one basic thing is the rules and regulations which are laid down by Buddha, second is the management of the monasteries. So the basic rules cannot change but we can and we must change the way of life and the management in the monasteries.
MB: Talking about education – and especially English - do you think its important for monks to learn English?
TC: Definitely. For general monks it's very important. You know in our society there are normally two kinds of monks – one kind only practise – they learn the Tibetan language and study and practice meditation – I think this kind of monk doesn’t need to learn English or any other language… the other kind, general monks, mostly study and practise but they are involved with the society also, they help society, so I think nowadays English is very important for the monks also, they can share and express their views, they can teach other people through English.
MB: Do you think it benefits the monks to learn English?
TC: Yes, nowadays many books on Buddhism are in English – especially those from Japan, Taiwan, European countries, so its very useful and beneficial in this respect.
MB: You said one reason to learn is to talk to and teach westerners and foreigners. Are there other reasons why monks should learn English?
TC: There are many reasons – if they learn English they can express their views and share their thoughts. When monks study philosophy and practise and whenever they get a chance to teach other people, especially westerners, it is very important – without English we can’t express our views. One more thing, my personal view, is that Ladakhi society is changing rapidly since it was opened to visitors in 1974 when local people came into contact with them. In society people are being educated through English, most courses are in English and most schools are English medium ones, so nowadays people have a good chance to learn English. So if the monks don’t study English then I think we’ll remain backwards. It is important that we go with the society, it’s important for personal development.
MB: Are there more opportunities for monks to travel to the west now, for example to teach about Buddhism?
TC: Yes indeed. Since the Dalai Lama and his followers and many Tibetan refugees came to India, Buddhism again became strong in India – it began to spread all over, especially the west. So Ladakhi monks have a good chance to go to the west to teach and visit and I think study.
MB: Buddhism is becoming more and more popular in the west where science usually dominates - what's your opinion on this?
TC: I think it’s a good sign – science is developing – we have good development in the field of materials… but only material development cannot give permanent happiness so as science develops, Buddhism should also develop. Buddhism gives inner peace and the main object of science is to develop the people, depending on the people... like some people use science for the wrong reasons, like making weapons... Buddhism can go hand in hand with science for mental peace for all the people. So it is very important.
MB: The opposite now – do you think Buddhism in its native lands, for example Ladakh, Tibet, Nepal, is decreasing?
TC: There are two things – quantity and quality. The quality is decreasing but after 1959, the Chinese occupation of Tibet, the Dalai Lama, many Rinpoches came to India, so I think people are taking a keener interest in Buddhism than before. Before there were few people who practised very strongly and they had great achievements. Nowadays some younger generations take an interest in Buddhism because many tourists come to Ladakh and ask about Buddhism and the old traditions so the young generation are taking an interest. About 15 or 20 years back there was a bad condition – the young generation thought that Buddhism was nothing, they neglected it... but I think the interest now is coming back.
MB: What do you think is the reason for this change?
TC: I think the main change is that we have many institutions, many NGOs, and especially the Dalai Lama comes every year to Ladakh to teach. The second thing – many westerners who are good in Buddhism, before coming here they study about Buddhism, they go to Dharamsala, meet the Dalai Lama, study more, then come to Ladakh. Then someone asks a Ladakhi about Buddhism and they can’t answer! So they feel ashamed. Now there is an awareness among the people that we have to preserve our traditions, our culture, especially that of our religion.
MB: 21st century society is very youth-orientated, when you look at the young monks in the monasteries, do you think there will be problems in this? Especially bearing in mind that they are the future of the monasteries?
TC: Yes, I think society is changing and year by year many new things come, Ladakh especially is confronting these new modern things… the young generation, they want to adopt these new things but many of the older generation always try to stop the younger generation becoming too involved with these things. We have to keep our old traditions, values, our own identities. First we have to learn these things, then if there are any new things that are good for us then we can adopt these… so it depends on the young generation and the older generation who can teach and show them.
MB: Do you see there being big changes in the monasteries in the next ten or twenty years with this new generation of monks?
TC: I think in the field of education there should be change… and in the management systems of the monasteries. I think it will change. Sometimes there is very old and rigid management in the monasteries so I think according to society’s changes we should change the old rigid systems, have flexible management. Children should get good secular and religious education. English needs to be taught properly, the world is opening up, Ladakh is opening up, and we need to be able to share our knowledge with the outside world and vice versa. I see big changes but positive ones.
MB: OK, we'll end the interview on that note. Thank you for your time.
TC: Thank you.